Latest JOSM is a usability nightmare

[lauri.hahne@…]

In latest JOSM more and more stuff has been moved away from GUI and replaced with keyboard shortcuts. As such shortcuts aren't bad but bot having clearly visible options for same stuff is bad.

All actions should be evident to user, not something like shift click this and ctrl click that. And to make matters worse, there is practically no documentation.

I just downloaded the latest JOSM and at least the following are problems as compared to earlier versions.

1. How do I add a node into way
2. How do I add a node without extending a way.
3. How do I select an object without using move tool.
4. How do I deselect anything without using move tool.

Combining the move and select tool is the worst design choice ever. These are two actions that have nothing to do with each other. Who ever has done this should read some books on usability before even daring to do any changed to GUI.

It appears that who ever has done these changes has thought about doing JOSM easier to use but the current design violates every mental model imagenable.

I hope that something will be do to correct these defects as currently JOSM is even worse to use than Potlach which it tries ti hideously immitate by hiding functionality behind keybord shortcuts which aren't documented.

[anonymous]

And sorry about that list looking so crap. I haven't yet figured how to effectively use trac's editor.

[Ben]

• To add a node into the way, click on the way.
• The 'move' and 'select' tools are merged, so in selecting you have the move tool also

I do agree that the combination is currently a bit tricky. I think it could be more usuale if 'move' is enabled when holding shift, but as said, this isn't very beginner freindly, or freindly to anyone not wishing to use shortcuts all the time.

[anonymous]

Key modifier tips are shown in the status bar.

[amck]

It is essential to be able to select freely without constantly having to check that there has been no inadvertent move. Select and move must be separated.

[SpeedEvil]

Replying to amck:

It is essential to be able to select freely without constantly having to check that there has been no inadvertent move. Select and move must be separated.

Totally agree.
There is an argument for allowing single node moves if there are no other nodes or ways within 10 pixels or so.
Accidentally moving a way you can't see because you're zoomed out, because your finger slipped onto the wrong mouse button is insane.

[tsok]

I think I like the modeless features in JOSM in general. The modifier keys are ok in principle, but maybe they should be more prominently shown. How about mentioning about them in the mode selection tooltip popups? Also all functions -- I don't know if there are any currently -- should be accessible without the middle button of a mouse, at least via a detour via a menu selection, for example.

Anyway I strongly agree that combining move and select is a bad thing, so far I've inadvertently moved several nodes when I just wanted to select.

Tapio

[anonymous]

Select+move is OK for fast editing of existing features, but there is NO plain select for attribute editing. As others already noted - accidental road editing is not a best thing for data quality.

What I'm most miss is ability to add plain nodes to existing road no mater if I have some other node/way selected or not. Using keyboard is no-no. It's a plain and simple action and it shouldn't require me to use both hands or hands+feets or any other insane combination.

[anonymous]

Having select only in addition to select+move would be useful, especially for attribute editing. While undo usually can fix inadvertent road moves, using undo will cancel current selection, so you have to select all that nodes again ...

[anonymous]

Just uploaded the new version - very unfriendly. To have to deselect a node before adding a node to a existing way is user unfriendly. Slect and move as the same button is not good. Losing the ability to add a few nodes and then link them is also not good. Swopping between keyboard and mouse is also not good. I have restored my older version

[anonymous]

I agree with the above sentiments. While the changes will speed up some editing it will slow down other editing. Also not very user friendly for new users.

[Klap-in]

I think keyboard shortcuts are OK, when you tells the user what he can do.

A program that uses also keyboard - mouse combinations is Inkscape. Inkscape has a status bar at the bottom of the window with hints. The hints give the possible key-mouse combinations + description of action.

An example:
​http://www.inkscape.org/screenshots/gallery/inkscape-0.46-paint-bucket.png

[steelman]

Let my 2 cents be that I also hate to hit s' or u' everytime I add a node to a way when I do some shape refining. Select+move is not too bad though I have got used to type s' and m' alternately.

[framm]

Select and move will stay in one mode. We have introduced a number of chnages since the ticket was opened (initial delay, initial treshold), and I think in time have the necessary refinements to make everyone happy. However this is a gradual process, not something you can tick off a list. I am unwilling to keep this ticket open until such time, especially under this subject.