Operation was not performed, as per delete_outside_nodes preference

[jfd553]

What steps will reproduce the problem?

1. Not sure, I was editing a multipolygon (natural = wood) with all its rings downloaded.
2. I opened the only inner ring, joined it to the adjacent outer ring
3. I tried to delete the remaining inner ring segment and got the warning.
4. Tried "Update selection" for each of the related segments/relation.
5. Tried "Download parent way/relation..." for each of the related segments/relation.
6. Tried to download a larger area around my edits.
7. Still getting that silly warning.

What is the expected result?

Such operation used to be done without warning.

What happens instead?

Cannot complete what seems an obvious operation.

Please provide any additional information below. Attach a screenshot if possible.

I have been doing complex operations with JOSM for over a decade. For the past few months, I have been constantly interrupted while performing such operations that used to be obvious. I don't see what I am missing, as if new implicit rules have been established. If so, the rules should appear/be referenced in the warning messages.

I have attached a screenshot that shows the situation and a text file that provide JOSM internal info on the relation, its components and the way I am trying to delete (Josm View > Advance info ...)

Relative:URL: ^/trunk
Repository:UUID: 0c6e7542-c601-0410-84e7-c038aed88b3b
Last:Changed Date: 2024-07-02 17:10:50 +0200 (Tue, 02 Jul 2024)
Revision:19128
Build-Date:2024-07-03 01:31:15
URL:https://josm.openstreetmap.de/svn/trunk

Identification: JOSM/1.5 (19128 en) Windows 11 64-Bit
OS Build number: Windows 10 Pro 23H2 (22631)
Memory Usage: 1988 MB / 8140 MB (1215 MB allocated, but free)
Java version: 21.0.3+9-LTS, Azul Systems, Inc., OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM
Look and Feel: com.sun.java.swing.plaf.windows.WindowsLookAndFeel
Screen: \Display0 1920x1080x32bpp@60Hz (scaling 1.00×1.00)
Maximum Screen Size: 1920×1080
Best cursor sizes: 16×16→32×32, 32×32→32×32
System property file.encoding: UTF-8
System property sun.jnu.encoding: Cp1252
Locale info: en_US
Numbers with default locale: 1234567890 -> 1234567890
VM arguments: [-Dicedtea-web.bin.location=%UserProfile%\AppData\Local\Programs\OpenWebStart\javaws, -Djava.util.Arrays.useLegacyMergeSort=true, --add-reads=java.base=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop, --add-reads=java.desktop=ALL-UNNAMED,java.naming, --add-reads=java.naming=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop, --add-exports=java.desktop/sun.awt=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop, --add-exports=java.desktop/javax.jnlp=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop, --add-exports=java.base/com.sun.net.ssl.internal.ssl=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop, --add-exports=java.base/sun.net.www.protocol.jar=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop, --add-exports=java.base/sun.security.action=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop, --add-exports=java.base/sun.security.provider=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop, --add-exports=java.base/sun.security.util=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop, --add-exports=java.base/sun.security.validator=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop, --add-exports=java.base/sun.security.x509=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop, --add-exports=java.base/jdk.internal.util.jar=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop, --add-exports=java.base/sun.net.www.protocol.http=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop, --add-exports=java.desktop/sun.awt.X11=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop, --add-exports=java.desktop/sun.applet=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop,jdk.jsobject, --add-exports=java.naming/com.sun.jndi.toolkit.url=ALL-UNNAMED,java.desktop, --add-modules=java.scripting,java.sql,javafx.controls,javafx.media,javafx.swing,javafx.web, --add-exports=java.desktop/com.apple.eawt=ALL-UNNAMED, --add-exports=java.desktop/com.sun.imageio.spi=ALL-UNNAMED, --add-exports=java.desktop/com.sun.imageio.plugins.jpeg=ALL-UNNAMED, --add-exports=javafx.graphics/com.sun.javafx.application=ALL-UNNAMED, --add-exports=jdk.deploy/com.sun.deploy.config=ALL-UNNAMED, --add-opens=java.base/java.lang=ALL-UNNAMED, --add-opens=java.base/java.nio=ALL-UNNAMED, --add-opens=java.base/jdk.internal.loader=ALL-UNNAMED, --add-opens=java.base/jdk.internal.ref=ALL-UNNAMED, --add-opens=java.desktop/javax.imageio.spi=ALL-UNNAMED, --add-opens=java.desktop/javax.swing.text.html=ALL-UNNAMED, --add-opens=java.prefs/java.util.prefs=ALL-UNNAMED, -Djava.security.manager=allow]
Dataset consistency test: No problems found

Plugins:
+ ImportImagePlugin (36184)
+ PicLayer (1.0.3)
+ apache-commons (36273)
+ ejml (36176)
+ geotools (36273)
+ jackson (36273)
+ jaxb (36118)
+ jts (36004)
+ measurement (36256)
+ reverter (36256)
+ tageditor (36258)
+ turnlanes-tagging (0.0.5)
+ turnrestrictions (36226)
+ utilsplugin2 (36241)

Last errors/warnings:
- 00000.259 W: extended font config - overriding 'filename.Malgun_Gothic=malgun.ttf' with 'MALGUN.TTF'
- 00000.261 W: extended font config - overriding 'filename.Myanmar_Text=mmrtext.ttf' with 'MMRTEXT.TTF'
- 00000.262 W: extended font config - overriding 'filename.Mongolian_Baiti=monbaiti.ttf' with 'MONBAITI.TTF'
- 00002.575 W: Unable to request certificate of https://roottest-g3.pkioverheid.nl
- 00002.967 W: Unable to request certificate of https://roottest-g3.pkioverheid.nl
- 00007.944 E: unable to find dependency jaxb for plugin geotools
- 04723.032 W: java.net.SocketTimeoutException: Read timed out. Cause: java.net.SocketTimeoutException: Read timed out

[jfd553]

Screenshot of the situation

[jfd553]

Internal JOSM info on the relation, its rings, and the segment I am trying to delete without success.

[taylor.smock]

It would help if you left the problematic area in a testable state for reproduction. And maybe better repro steps.

Example: Download

Anyway, I think this is a partial duplicate with #23808.

[jfd553]

Thanks for looking at it. I'll try to better isolate operations the next time.

"It would help if you left the problematic area in a testable state" ... I agree, but I'm not sure what it means (users are dumb :-)
Seriously, explain in a few words so I'll be able do keep it in a testable state the next time.

[taylor.smock]

A month or two ago we added a flag to indicate that the object has been fully downloaded. We switched to that instead of using the download area to reduce the potential for data issues (overpass downloads can set the download area, and overpass doesn't have to be the equivalent of a download from OSM).

As far as keeping the problematic area in a testable state, I mean "don't upload". Once I reproduce, feel free to upload/fix the test area though.

In other words, if you encounter the problem with the following steps:

1. Download area
2. Remove way <id>
3. Combine way <id1> and <id2>
4. See failure

then you should not then do

5. Upload to OSM

[jfd553]

Replying to taylor.smock:

A month or two ago we added a flag to indicate that the object has been fully downloaded. We switched to that instead of using the download area to reduce the potential for data issues (overpass downloads can set the download area, and overpass doesn't have to be the equivalent of a download from OSM).

As far as keeping the problematic area in a testable state, I mean "don't upload". Once I reproduce, feel free to upload/fix the test area though.

In other words, if you encounter the problem with the following steps:

1. Download area
2. Remove way <id>
3. Combine way <id1> and <id2>
4. See failure

then you should not then do

5. Upload to OSM

Understood :-)
Regarding the new flag that indicates an object has been fully downloaded. Is there a documentation that could be consulted to fully understand its meaning and its implications? - for dumb users like me

[taylor.smock]

Not yet; right now the flag is JOSM internal and only indicates that editing the object will not create unintended consequences (so all relations and parent ways are downloaded).