WikiStart Start Page - How much details for download options?

[leni]

Start Page Version 311

Please keep in mind that the Installers for windows and for Mac OS also need manual updates

Yes, but this is to be consistent with the previous line "josm.jnlp" in which we indicate that the update does this automatically. - I've had several requests from contributors who ask about "josm-tested.jar" when they read this page - this is a clarification.

So placing this issue only at the josm-tested.jar is misleading

Why didn't you add it on the other points instead of removing it?

Furthermore this should not be a topic for the front page.

for people arriving on this page choose the software knowing either that they won't need to update the next updates (automatically) or that they will have to download each time (manually)

[Hb---]

Thanks for starting this issue.

the Installers for windows and for Mac OS also need manual updates

Yes, but this is to be consistent with the previous line "josm.jnlp" in which we indicate that the update does this automatically.

I do not see the meaning of "monthly automatic updates" jumping out of the box around .jnlp. It is a positive feature which the other options do not have.

I've had several requests from contributors who ask about "josm-tested.jar" when they read this page - this is a clarification.

Probably those people clicked the "How to run" link before. Then they got the wrong answers at the target of this link and felt the need to ask someone else.

Indeed, the targets of the links

• How to start -> Download#Webstart
• How to run -> Download#Java
• How to install -> Download#Mswindowswrapper
• How to Mac -> Download#Macoserrors

are not at their optimum. Currently they lead to sections deep in the Download page far away from each other, see image below.

These sections do not reflect the order of the boxes on the Start Page. They only partly reflect their content. That is confusing. Probably this has historic reasons because Webstart came later and needs a working java installation as prerequisite.

So placing this issue only at the josm-tested.jar is misleading

Why didn't you add it on the other points instead of removing it?

A problem does not go away by throwing more words on it. Duplicate content on a page should be avoided. Duplicate content might even deepen the problem.

Furthermore this should not be a topic for the front page.

for people arriving on this page choose the software knowing either that they won't need to update the next updates (automatically) or that they will have to download each time (manually)

The Start page currently fulfills this task in a positive way. It shows the benefit for the .jnlp.

I assume that interested people do click one of the "How to ..." links.

Conclusion
The Download page needs an update first. All How to .. links should lead to different targets in the first section. This section should give an overview and should show the differences between the options. From inside this section then links should go to the system specific subsections on the page.

The title of first section is now Recommended Options and needs to be changed:
Download options?
Download options overview?
Which download to choose?

[leni]

Replying to Hb---:

I do not see the meaning of "monthly automatic updates" jumping out of the box around .jnlp. It is a positive feature which the other options do not have.

Ok, but it seems to me that this is the difficulty, it is not said that others do not have it.

A problem does not go away by throwing more words on it. Duplicate content on a page should be avoided. Duplicate content might even deepen the problem.

It also doesn't disappear by deleting it.

Furthermore this should not be a topic for the front page.

for people arriving on this page choose the software knowing either that they won't need to update the next updates (automatically) or that they will have to download each time (manually)

The Start page currently fulfills this task in a positive way. It shows the benefit for the .jnlp.

Let's put ourselves in the shoes of someone who's not an expert and who's wondering, while reading it, what about the others?

May be adding to "monthly automatic update": "unlike the other solutions," would solve the problem.

I assume that interested people do click one of the "How to ..." links.

I'm not sure that's the case with everyone.

I agree with your proposals for the download page.

[Hb---]

... by deleting it.

Correct. Moving it to a nicer place sounds better.

May be adding to "monthly automatic update": "unlike the other solutions," ...

Or putting it in 'Recommended' part of the sentence:

Start josm.jnlp (newest tested version)
Recommended distribution channel with automatic updates, all platforms (how to start)

Wording for the channels with manual updates could be

Download josm-tested.jar (version 00000)
All platforms (how to run)
|                                                |
| as _Installer for Windows_ (_how to install_)  |  as _Package for Mac_ (_how on mac_)
|

A cascading boxes layout could look like:

I assume that interested people do click

I'm not sure that's the case with everyone.

Yes, some people might not click. Do those people have a future with JOSM? I see the risk bigger that more people walk away when they see an overcrowded front page.

[skyper]

• The icon is too big on normal screens making the whole first box huge without much content.
• With green background should be the recommended installation options with little info about the differences
  • e.g. the missing update mechanism is in my eyes an important information.
  • the own hosted deb server mainly for Ubuntu and its derivatives is missing.
• With grey background all other options with links to infos.

The pages below need way more attention so we have little benefit disputing about one sentence one the main page, and in the end I rather map than document.

[leni]

OK, can I close the issue?

[Hb---]

We do not have no solution, yet. On this weekend the 20.02 release got out. People were busy with more important things. Let's wait a week or two. Feel free to read #12800 in the meantime.