[PATCH] Internal preset does not cover most tags/values of sport=climbing

[schoschi]

JOSM's internal preset does not cover most tags/values of ​https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:sport%3Dclimbing which increases required effort to map them and probably is one reason why they are not used widely even after years.

Attached is a patch. It provided EN and DE texts. As usual tags as well as usual values differ between climbs on natural and artificial structures, I added two distinct items.

[schoschi]

patched default presets

[schoschi]

"JOSM preset climbing.xml" can be manually added into JOSM for easy trying of submitted patch, or as a workaround until the patch is included into JOSM releases.

[Don-vip]

Thanks! Two remarks to take into account:

• We don't maintain translations in the presets file. Only English is included, then all languages are translated on Launchpad. So the German translations must be removed
• There is an indentation problem (tabs instead of spaces, or too many spaces)

[schoschi]

Thank you for the feedback. In case you have to give it more often, you may want to add both as coding convetion to https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/DevelopersGuide/DefaultPresets
@1: I removed the German translations except for link element (so similar to other item elements in the XML). I will add translations via Launchpad when I figured out how that works...
@2: I investigated the other parts of the XML and replaced tabs by 4 spaces. Hope that is fine.

[schoschi]

I want to support OSM & JOSM comunity but sorry, for just once submitting some translated strings I am not motivated to invest 1-2 hours to read Ubuntu One terms of service, Ubuntu data privacy policy and Ubuntu Canonical's SSO privacy notice and then create an Ubuntu account and then create a Launchpad account and then start to learn how to translate using Launchpad. Someone from the community who is more into Ubuntu and translations can extract (even automatically) the translated strings from the original .patch or preset .xml files I submitted.

[RicoZ]

We have recently revamped the climbing page and documented the grading values without the min/max/mean that can be used to tag single routes, eg "climbing:grade:uiaa" ​https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/climbing%3Agrade%3Auiaa

Could you please add those to the preset?

Also, would it be possible to provide a selection of common values for grading so mappers are less likely to mistype them?

[Don-vip]

In 14591/josm:

fix #16525 - improve sport=climbing presets (patch by schoschi, modified)

[Don-vip]

In 14597/josm:

see #16525 - fix issues

[Don-vip]

​Issue created for the opening_hours warning

[Don-vip]

In 14644/josm:

see #16525 - fix i18n issue

[ypid23]

Hi,

About the opening_hours warning. The example opening_hours value that is used in this preset is not ideal and I do not consider the warning that is given a false positive. It is missing important information:

• Is it open on public holidays?
• What time is it open/allowed?

Maybe an example like:

Mar-Jun closed; Jul-Feb Th-Su,PH 06:00-18:00

can be used. Or maybe you have an even better/more realistic value for this preset. Please also consider to rework the other example opening_hours. Ideally they would all be realistic and fully valid. To do this, I would propose:

'sunset-sunrise open; sunrise-sunset closed;' -> 'Mo-Su,PH sunset-sunrise'

Please try all values in ​https://openingh.ypid.de/evaluation_tool/, I tried really hard to give tips/warnings:

• "This rule does not contain anything useful. Please remove this empty rule. Might it be possible that you are a programmer and adding a semicolon after each statement is hardwired in your muscle memory ;) ? The thing is that the semicolon in the opening_hours syntax is defined as rule separator. So for compatibility reasons you should omit this last semicolon."

[Don-vip]

OK, thanks! :)

[Don-vip]

In 14663/josm:

see #16525 - use more explicit opening_hours value

[simon04]

In 14730/josm:

see #16525 - Exclude numeric climbing values from i18n

[simon@…]

General question which seems to be completely skipped in the wiki discussions etc: does this tagging promote the sport tag to a top level "object" tag?

In particular ​https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Climbing#Climbing_Routes would seem to be suggest the routes to be mappedas stand alone entities.

[anonymous]

In this case climbing=route is for me the primary tag.

[anonymous]

Which is naturally even worse.

[RicoZ]

The history is that someone who created/maintained the sport=climbing page/tag was at some point long ago strongly against mapping of single climbing routes and other details. Hence it seems there was little coordination with the climbing proposal. Some time ago User:Tigerfell and me merged it as good as we could figure out.

As I understand it there is supposed to be a sport=climbing on some object. This could be even a climbing=route but in practice this will be rare and the sport=climbing will mostly be applied to a natural=cliff, a building with indoor climbing, a crag or just a node showing the general location.

[simon@…]

@RicoZ the problem is that up to now, the sport key/tag was considered to be an attribute of an otherwise mapped object, for example leisure=pitch. In the case of climbing routes, these are individual "objects" on their own. So while you could add sport=climbing to a cliff, it still wouldn't change that for routes up the cliff you still have this issue.

A quick check in taginfo and overpass would seem to indicate that climbing=route and climbing=route_bottom (which is more popular, but interesting enough is missing from the preset) are not consistently used in one way or the other. Which in my experience implies that things will gravitate towards climbing being used on its own.

[RicoZ]

@simon: I think you are right predicting that climbing routes will be probably frequently used without sport=climbing. We could change the wiki but I don't know how to make it better. Attaching sport=climbing to each climbing route would not feel right for me unless those were on separate cliffs? In some way I consider the situation similar to sport=cycling - afaik pretty much nobody uses it for outdoor mtb tracks.